Some Interesting Correlations with High Taxes


Investor’s Business Daily found striking correlations between tax burden, presidential vote, population loss/gain, and government fiscal condition.  In general, high-tax states tended to vote for the Democrat in the last election, tend to be losing domestic population to other states, and tend not to be in great fiscal condition.  As IBD suggests:

One way to look at all this is to conclude that poorly managed states are trying to force taxpayers to cover for their mistakes. But, taxpayers won’t stand for it. Which strongly suggests that high-tax states need to set a new course, toward lower taxes and less spending, if they want to stop their population losses.

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Of course, that’s a big “if.”  As long as they can keep the scheme going, population is only incidental… never mind that our governments are supposedly instituted to represent the people who actually live in an area.  That isn’t any longer true in a fundamental sense.

  • Guest

    Very, very interesting information here and how people take a little information, twist it around to fit their propaganda of generalisation even though their own reference information they sight proves them wrong to start with.

    I don’t know who Investor’s Business Daily is but I think they shot themself in the foot. If anyone follows “Wallet Hub” comparisons they understand that the information collected is haphazard and not consistent especially not even following the respected business normals of major data collectors.

    Funny, Investor’s Business Daily ranked Hawaii as one of the top heavily taxed states in the nation that only votes democratic and is on the verge of financial failure!!!! I live in the state of Hawaii, been here over 11 years and I can tell you outright what Investor’s Business Daily is writing is garbage and totally false about Hawaii.

    Investor’s Business Daily has the nerve to then try to substantiate their claims by citing a study by Mercatus Center at George Mason University which ranks Hawaii as 37 out of 50 states for being average with taxes.

    If you go to the tax foundation on their tax data you will find Hawaii squarely in the middle when it comes to taxes. In the 11 years I’ve lived in Hawaii there was an elected Republican Governor and an elected Republican Congressman.

    State of Hawaii has had a balanced budget as required by constitutional law for 10 years and 1 year an excess in taxpayer funds which under law was returned to each taxpayer via check.

    This is a great example of misinformation being disseminated across the internet by special interest rogue groups.

    • Mike678

      “This is a great example of misinformation being disseminated across the internet by special interest rogue groups.” Or Individuals?

      The answer, frankly, is it depends on what you rate and how it affects the individual. You are correct–agenda’s can drive conclusions if one’s bias cherry-picks only data that supports their pre-determined conclusions. HI may be in great shape–it has low business taxes and, overall, low sales / property taxes, for example. The income taxes, however…

      USA Today:

      Taxes paid as pct. of income: 10.2%
      Income per capita: $50,363 (18th highest)
      Income tax collections per capita: $1,389 (10th highest)
      Property tax collections per capita: $980 (17th lowest)
      General sales tax collections per capita: $2,090 (the highest)

      From the Tax Foundation: State Collection per Capita: 7th Highest.
      Hi–#37 of 50 (26 short Term)

      • Guest


        One of the largest and glaring mistakes everyone one of you people that live on the mainland make is trying to compare Hawaii to mainland cities so you take the “core metro” price of living from the capitol city. In Hawaii’s case it is Honolulu. City and County of Honolulu is all 599 sq. mi. of the Island of Oahu plus all land, inlets, islands and atolls not claimed by any other Hawaii County across the 1,500 miles of 132 nonconnected individual islands.

        Guess what, the numbers did not work for Hawaii because the capitol city is the largest in the United States more than half way across the lower continuous 48 states.

        So the quick and easy fix was to take the 65 sq. mi. “Core Metro” Honolulu pricing that includes the most visited place in Hawaii that includes over 100 hotels/resorts and luxury residents of some of the richest population and the highest priced area to live in all of Hawaii.

        I live in the other 534 sq. mi. of Honolulu and I can tell you the numbers you are reporting are BS and apply only to the 65 sq mi of “Core metro” Honolulu. For me according to my spreadsheet, I am saving $15,500 per year living in Honolulu verses living back in Woonsocket, RI.

        In RI and most other states schools are funded via property tax and state government via state income tax.

        In Hawaii there is one unified state-wide wide school district operated by the state goverment and guess how it is funded; via state income tax and sales tax. Sales tax is only 4% in Hawaii but is applied to everything except medical prescriptions.

        That is why income tax is slightly higher in HI and property taxes are lowest plus no property tax on vehicles and boats.

        There are retirement and age circuit breakers on some of the taxes in Hawaii like social security, federal, state, municipal, military and some private business retirements and all out of state government retirement income are exempt from HI state income tax. Some personal retirements are partially taxed.

        Each of the 4 county municipalities sets their own tax rate and exemptions (owner/occupied homestead, senior age and low income). Minimum County Property Tax set by each county; Kauai County=$75 per year, Honolulu County=$300 per year, Maui County=$150 per year and Hawaii County=$150 per year.

        In Honolulu the property tax is $3.50/$1,000 @100% value. Owner/occupied homestead any age $80,000 exemption, senior citizen $120,000 exemption and low income up to $200,000 exemption. Minimum municipal county property tax $300 per year. Due to my exemptions I am required to pay the minimum property tax $300.

        BTW, U.S.A. Today and U.S. News constantly talk bad about Hawaii and find information contrary to other respected financial reporting agencies.

        If you never visited Hawaii or lived in Hawaii then I don’t value your word about the state that I’ve been visiting since 1968 and finally full time resident 2006.

        9,382,986 tourists and visitors spent their money and time to visit Hawaii in 2017 and us 1.4 million residents. 2018 projections are to break the 10 million tourists and visitor mark.

        If this state is so bad then why do all these world-wide people keep visiting us?

      • Guest


        I wrote a reply but it was not printed so I’ll try again. When mainland tries to make cost of living comparison with Hawaii they take the local prices and wage incomes from the 65 sq mi “core metro” Honolulu which includes the most expensive downtown areas, prestigious Waikiki Beach tourist area with over 100 hotel/resorts and high-rise condominiums and areas where most of the millionaires and billionaires live as this is the most expensive area to live in all of the state of HI. City and County of Honolulu encompasses all of the 599 sq mi Island of Oahu plus.

        I live in City of Honolulu but not in the “core metro” area but out in the other 534 sq mi and I can tell you after 11 years of cost of living spreadsheets line item by line item it is for me $15,500 per year cheaper living than back in Woonsocket, RI with a majority of that in tax savings.

        New Hampshire has no income tax, no taxes on retirement and a limited sales tax which makes it look like a great state to retire to but you better watch out for what is taxed and enourmous property taxes to support state, local governments and schools.

        Likewise Florida looks like a greate state to retire to due to its taxes but once you look close it has no state income tax, no taxes on retirement but there is a state sales tax with local government added sales tax, property taxes, personal property taxes and school district taxes to support state, local governments and schools.

        State of Hawaii 43rd largest state by landmass has 1 state goverment, no state police force, 4 county forms of municipal government and 1 state-wide unified school district operated by state government. State of Hawaii constitution allows only county municipalities the ability to tax property owned by residents residing within the respective county. State government can not tax property. There is no property tax on vehicles and boats in Hawaii.

        Each of the 4 municipalities in Hawaii set the their own tax rate and minimum county tax to operate on and resident exemptions (owner/occupied, homestead, senior citizen and low income). Kauai County=$75 minimum property tax, Maui County=$150 Minimum property tax, Hawaii County=$100 Minimum property tax. I live in Honolulu County where property tax is $3.50/$1,000@100% evaluation and minimum property tax is $300 per year. Owner/occupied homestead exemption is $80,000, senior citizen exemption is $120,000 and low income exemption is up to $200,000. I am required by county after my exemptions are applied to pay $300 per year property tax.

        State of Hawaii government and school district is funded by state income tax, state fees and sales tax. State of Hawaii in order to show no business political preference taxes all transactions except prescription drug transactions are exempt.

        As for retirement income in Hawaii all social security, federal, state, municipal,  military, most private retirement incomes; all out of state government retirement incomes are exempt from state income tax. Some private retirement incomes are partially taxed. 

        In 11 years since I’ve noticed U.S.A. Today and U.S. News constantly talk bad about Hawaii and always project the negative even taking bits and pieces from different stories to make their own story. I seriously doubt any one of their authors have ever visited Hawaii so you think what you want.

        The facts that I just wrote you can fly out here and verify and then go back and look at all the off the wall numbers mainland people write about Hawaii. This year we are about to entertain 10 million tourists in one year so whatever the 1.4 million of us are doing is a big attraction!

    • Merle The Monster

      Here’s what Sourcewatch has about Mercatus Center

      The Mercatus Center, part of George Mason University, is one of the best-funded think tanks in the United States. It is listed as “sister organization” to the Institute for Humane Studies. Mercatus describes its mission as “to generate knowledge and understanding of the institutions that affect the freedom to prosper, and to find sustainable solutions that overcome the barriers preventing individuals from living free, prosperous, and peaceful lives.”[1]

      The Mercatus Center was founded and is funded by the Koch Family Foundations. According to financial records, the Koch family has contributed more than thirty million dollars to George Mason University, much of which has gone to the Mercatus Center, a nonprofit organization. Democratic strategist Rob Stein described the Mercatus Center as “ground zero for deregulation policy in Washington.” George Mason Uni itself was only founded in 1972 on a campus just outside Washington DC. It is now Virginia’s largest public research university with 34,000 students on campus, ten schools and colleges.

      The Mercatus Center has engaged in campaigns involving deregulation, especially environmental deregulation. According to The Guardian in 2010, it “now fills the role once played by the economics department at Chicago University as the originator of extreme neoliberal ideas.”[2] During the George W. Bush administration’s campaign to reduce government regulation, the Wall Street Journal reported, “14 of the 23 rules the White House chose for its “hit list” to eliminate or modify were Mercatus entries — a record that flabbergasted Washington lobbying heavyweights.”[3]

      The Wall Street Journal has called the Mercatus Center “the most important think tank you’ve never heard of.”[4]

      The Mercatus Center is an “associate” member of the State Policy Network, a web of right-wing “think tanks” in every state across the country.[5]

      Koch Wiki
      The Koch brothers — David and Charles — are the right-wing billionaire co-owners of Koch Industries. As two of the richest people in the world, they are key funders of the right-wing infrastructure, including the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and the State Policy Network (SPN). In SourceWatch, key articles on the Kochs include: Koch Brothers, Koch Industries, Americans for Prosperity, American Encore, and Freedom Partners.

      • Guest

        Very interesting as the Mercatus Center was the one that Wallet Hub and Investor’s Business Daily was trying to use to substantiate Hawaii as a poorly run in debt democratic state which Justin and Mike were amplifying in their comments but Mercatus Center actually indicated Hawaii was OK average state in the middle of the pack.

        Of course I have to wonder what is in play here because there is so much transparency in government in Hawaii that we almost know what color underwear the politicians are wearing each day. There is hell to pay for breaching public trust in Hawaii.

        The local pineapple wireless is faster than any regular communication system now in use and the police departments actually depend on it sometimes.

        If the Koch brothers think they can make a splash in Hawaii, they don’t know what they are getting in to as we mainly place people on the beach facing mainland and order them to start walking 2,500 miles back to mainland home.

        We know of every person that enters Hawaii.

      • Mike678

        Lol. You forgot to mention that SourceWatch is a far left organization. No bias there!

        • Merle The Monster

          The Mercatus Center at George Mason University is an American non-profit free-market-oriented research, education, and outreach think tank directed by Tyler Cowen. It works with policy experts, lobbyists, and government officials to connect academic learning and real-world practice. Taking its name from the Latin word for “market”, the Center advocates free-market approaches to public policy. During the George W. Bush administration’s campaign to reduce government regulation, the Wall Street Journal reported, “14 of the 23 rules the White House chose for its “hit list” to eliminate or modify were Mercatus entries.”[2]

          Mercatus Center
          Mercatus logo.png
          Richard H. Fink
          Tyler Cowen
          Revenue: $23,977,583
          Expenses: $19,205,513
          (FYE August 2015)[1]
          Formerly called
          Center for the Study of Market Processes
          38.8857°N 77.1018°W
          3434 Washington Blvd., 4th Floor

          Arlington, Virginia 22201

          According to the 2017 Global Go To Think Tank Index Report (Think Tanks and Civil Societies Program, University of Pennsylvania), Mercatus is number 39 (of 90) in the “Top Think Tanks in the United States” and number 18 (of 90) of the “Best University Affiliated Think Tanks”.[3] Some critics have noted the center’s association with the Koch brothers[4][5][6] and its founder Richard Fink, headed the Koch Industries’ lobbying in Washington as of 2010.[4]




          Organizational structure Edit

          The Mercatus Center is located on George Mason University’s Arlington Campus, and is affiliated with GMU’s Economics department. The Provost of George Mason University has the power to appoint a faculty director to head the Mercatus Center.

          Board of directors Edit
          Members of the Board of Directors include:[24]

          Frank Atkinson, Partner at McGuireWoods
          Donald J. Boudreaux, senior fellow with the F.A. Hayek Program for Advanced Study in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics at the Mercatus Center
          Emily Chamlee-Wright, president and CEO of the Institute for Humane Studies
          Tyler Cowen, Professor of Economics at GMU
          Richard Fink, Executive Vice President of Koch Industries
          Brian Hooks, President of the Charles Koch Foundation
          Manuel H. Johnson, economist
          Charles G. Koch, co-owner, Chairman and CEO of Koch Industries
          Edwin Meese, 75th United States Attorney General (1985–1988)
          Vernon L. Smith, 2002 winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences



          See also


          External links

          Last edited

          • Mike678

            Great! You know how to cut and paste. Now if you actually make a cogent argument…