In The Dugout: Protests In DC- CALL IN to discuss!

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  • The Misfit

    You and all Trump supporters that do not stop this assault on our country. We had an election. Honor that or you have no honor. None at all.

    • Justin Katz

      After the last four years, nobody on the left has any credibility to offer such statements. Y’all brought us to this place.

      • Lou

        That’s truly a shameful response, Justin. You need to accept your responsibly for your part in fanning these flames and the disgusting display from some of your fellow “patriots” today.

        • ShannonEntropy

          You were silent as a church mouse when the Burn-Loot-Murder crowd was destroying our cities. As I always say:

          The phrase “Liberal Hypocrite” is redundant”

          • steve22

            This was my reply to the hyperbole I had to endure yesterday too. Candidates Biden/Harris didn’t have much to say about it all summer either. Yesterday was more an embarrassing than a destructive event compared to the 2020 Summer of Love’s “mostly peaceful protests”.

          • ShannonEntropy

            Speaking of hypocrisy… it’s a shame that white woman got shot & killed yesterday

            How do I know she’s white ?? Cuz the media didn’t say she was white. If she was black, that would have been the first word of the headline

          • bagida’wewinini

            You are a racist coward

          • ShannonEntropy

            Your typical ad hominem response

            FYI identifying hypocritical trends in media reporting isn’t “racist” any more than pointing out that the vast majority of violent crime is committed by young black males even tho they are a single-digit part of the population: these are just facts

          • bagida’wewinini

            You have written more than a few racist slurs and seem to support white supremacy ideology.

          • ShannonEntropy

            Yep I was right… she’s white:

            https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/who-was-ashli-babbitt.html

            Prolly just a coincidence, tho, according to bagi

          • Rhett Hardwick

            I suspect it will be little noted that the cop who shot her was black. More important, according to the video available he was not subject to any immediate threat.

          • Lou

            It takes one to know one, my friend. You appear to be “silent as a church mouse” today regarding yesterday’s events.

            For the record, anyone who participates in any of this illegal behavior should be prosecuted accordingly.

          • Rhett Hardwick

            Portland, Milwaukee, Kenosha

          • Lou

            Is that a question or are you with Shanny and only think the law should be apply to those you don’t agree with politically?

          • Rhett Hardwick

            It’s a question. Why wasn’t the illegal behavior prosecuted accordingly?

          • Lou

            If your assertion is true, you’ll have to ask those responsible. My position is all should be held accountable.

      • Mario

        The President organized a mob today and sent it to disrupt Congress so that they would have to stop counting the votes against him. The time has come to stop trying to find a way to pin all of Trump’s failures on amorphous conspiracies and consider the possibility that Trump is simply everything the left said he was.

        • Justin Katz

          I think that attitude attempts to avoid a much more difficult reality. Knowing several people who went to D.C., I can tell you that for millions of Americans, Trump is actually secondary. They feel as if they and their votes don’t count. Even when they win, they don’t win. They wanted to be there whether the President called for it or not.

          In part, that is the case because many see how hard the news media is working to dismiss their concerns, and because they don’t have a voice in the press, the feel being present today was their only way to ensure that Congress would not simply dismiss them as non-existent.

          So I don’t think it’s accurate to say he organized the protest, and I don’t think it’s accurate to say he sent it to disrupt Congress, which was obviously and predictably against his interests.

          But if you acknowledge that, you’re left trying to decide whether to try to figure out how to address the concerns of millions of your fellow Americans or to disenfranchise them and try to send them away somehow. It’s much easier to declare it’s all about this one man.

          • Mario

            They believe their votes don’t count because people keep lying to them. People shouldn’t be taking their concerns seriously, taking them seriously leads to angry mobs storming public buildings. Nothing can come of it because nothing is there, and pretending otherwise will only make them more disappointed later (you can see the same process happening on the left, with the Green New Deal, excessive minimum wage, etc. — creating its own death spiral of outlandish promises). I have no doubt that some people even after the election were holding on to honest hopes that Trump could still somehow keep his office, and the only way to deal with that fantasy is quickly and harshly, like the media and the courts have done.

            Losing an election isn’t being disenfranchised. Trump voters (by definition) have not been disenfranchised, they are just delusional. The delusion only persists because of shameless politicians and media personalities feeding on it, and Trump is at the center of that. They all follow his lead. You can think the mayhem is against his interests, but you can’t argue that this is exactly what he has threatened, called for, and cheered on since even before the election. He does plenty of things that should be against his interest, he sometimes even profits by them. Maybe this one went further than he hoped for, but I doubt it. He still thinks he can keep his office, and fomenting chaos is his chosen tool.

          • Justin Katz

            I can’t agree, in part because the attitude about dealing with beliefs “quickly and harshly” is entirely a one-way proposition, which reinforces the sense of disenfranchisement.

            You assert that there is nothing there, but in my view the fraud in this election was brazen and obvious. Biden will not legitimately be president, and while it might be preferable to go along with the fiction for various purposes, it’s better to be in reality than to believe the lie that he won. You assert that Trump is at the center of this, but among the people I know, he’s a secondary consideration. Without his participation, millions of people would feel even less represented in government and move on to the next level of response too that feeling.

            The bottom line is that we’re dealing with two different understandings of reality. From mine, your endorsement of “quick and harsh” punishment for one is a signal that we are, indeed, fighting oppression and injustice and must fight back. I think that is the wrong way to go, which is why I’m encouraging people on your side to remember that these are their fellow Americans and try to revive their confidence in our shared system. As actions are taken along those lines, more and more of us will (if you’re right about the circumstances) accept the results. But for now, your judgment appears snap and based mostly on your preference for the outcome.

          • Rhett Hardwick

            I have to agree with Justin. I cannot pinpoint exactly what events led me to my misgivings; but I am certain that the “Russian Conspiracy” had much to do with it. Everyone knew it was a fantasy, but it dragged on for months and months. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been seriously punished for it. It is no help that when I went to bed on Election Day, Trump led by 15% in many “swing states”. Then I wake to find he is 3% behind, with no plausible explanation.

          • Justin Katz

            Yes, Rhett. That list goes on and on. When I read people on the Left talking about yesterday as if it is something new and uniquely bad, I find myself blinking and wondering where they’ve been for the past years (decades). Bad things are only bad when conservatives and Republicans do them. When progressives or Democrats do worse things, it’s ignored or downplayed. Judgment is entirely dependent on the person being judged, rather than the action, which is practically a definition of injustice.

          • bagida’wewinini

            Your conspiracy theories fall apart when you cannot explain why Hillary Clinton conceded the 2016 election after most of the predictions showed her leading. Why would Vice President Biden oversaw the certification of electoral votes affirming that Trump had won the Presidency without leftist mobs invading the US Capital

          • Justin Katz

            Come on, now. Even if you do not agree, you must be able to think through the obvious logic of the position. Clinton was practically the emblem of the establishment power base, which knows its strength in the bureaucracy, the media, academia, and the schools. There was nothing to be gained by a show of defiance. Instead, they laid the groundwork for the Russiagate coup and rolled right into “resistance,” with the expectation that they would take Trump out, probably with his own help.

            Unfortunately for them, he proved not as bungling and mendacious as they expected (indeed, not as bungling and mendacious as they are) and was on his way to an easy reelection, probably with a strengthened hand in Congress. So, that’s when the leftists mobs began invading the U.S. Capital, and other cities in the bargain. Disruption, lockdowns, and electoral fraud ensued.

            Whether it is a conspiracy in theory or a conspiracy in fact, there is no inconsistency at all. My central objection at the moment is that the mainstreamers who may not be in on the conspiracy are taking exactly the wrong attitude. In conflict with people from whom you cannot walk away, you ultimately have two options: eliminate the person or find some way to live together. Although most probably aren’t admitting it to themselves, the reaction of the mainstreamers shows they choose elimination de facto.

          • ShannonEntropy

            My theory on what happened with the election:

            Normally the biggest problem the Left has with elections is getting their lazy base off their butts to go vote

            But the ‘plandemic’ gave them months to round up mail-in ballots and then they changed the rules on what constitutes a valid mail-in ballot

            Most of those ballots were in fact prolly legit, but some of the statistical facts — like the fact that a record number of 90+ yr olds in those swing states who had never voted before suddenly decided to give socialism a try with their first vote — sound awfully suspect

            In fact *any* statistical analysis of the election leads to conclusion that fraud was involved:

            https://djhjmedia.com/rich/anomalies-in-2020-voting-statistics-prove-voter-fraud-cannot-be-denied/

            https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2020/11/joe-bidens-votes-violate-benfords-law-mathematics-statistically-impossible/

          • Mario

            He’s a secondary consideration you say, while people in the mob are waving giant flags with his name.

            I wasn’t talking about punishment when I said “quickly and harshly,” I was talking about just telling the truth. Like I try to do for you when you go off the rails. I’m not going to coddle you or pretend that your feelings are valid, I’m going to tell you to stop and re-evaluate things because you are defending a criminal, terrorist, and an enemy of the United States. Someone who conspired with foreign governments for personal gain, tried to overthrow an election, and instigated an attack on the US Capitol. That’s how history will see this, and future Americans will wonder how people like you got to this point.

            I know everywhere you look you feel like you are surrounded by enemies, but is it so hard to believe Mitt Romney? What if you just started from the position that that one guy is honest, and worked things out from there?

          • Justin Katz

            And there’s the fascinating duality of our day. I believe history will observe that it is the corrupt Joe Biden who worked with foreign governments and whose election required fraud and other illegal means to secure, including attacks on the U.S. Capital and other cities. And I know everywhere you look you feel like you are surrounded by affirmation of your views.

            But I’m much less interested in how history sees that than whether the history books then go on to explain how mutual respect brought us back from the brink or how “people like you” assented to tyranny over “people like me” or that there was a civil war that resolved some way or other.

          • Mario

            There is no symmetry here. I’m surrounded by “affirmations of my views” because they more or less correctly depict the world as it exists. That you have to seek out affirmation for what you feel is true should be a red flag.

          • Justin Katz

            I didn’t say I have to seek out affirmation; there’s plenty. I was suggesting that you are unable to see disagreement.

          • Mario

            I guess there’s nothing else I can do. I’m sorry.

          • bagida’wewinini

            You all bear responsibility for supporting a reckless President and making those Americans who don’t share your extremist views into your enemies. Shame on all of you. Our foreign enemies are taking note of the division in our country and the way you and others demonize your fellow Americans. When is enough enough.

          • Justin Katz

            From my point of view, you and yours are the ones making Americans who don’t share your extremist views into your enemies. Shame on you. So, where do we go from here?

          • bagida’wewinini

            I’m going to be where I have been all along. Mario is right when he writes that history will make its judgement and woe to those who did nothing or participated in an insurrection either from their self delusion, or from their calculations of personal gain. I put you more in the delusional category although it should not be forgotten that you do derive income from your writing. The Senators who participated in advancing the Trump lies about the election should be judged harshly. If they will be is another story

          • Rhett Hardwick

            “history will make its judgement”, the victors write the history.

          • Portia

            I love hearing complaints about disenfranchisement from you, Justin. You’re the one who wouldn’t rest until there was only one budget on the Tiverton FTR ballot. You even tried to punish people who tried to exercise their right to submit an elector budget. So, you can just shut up about disenfranchisement.

          • Justin Katz

            Rules have to be followed in order for a ballot to be valid. The rule of law ensures enfranchisement, not the other way around. As to the second part of your comment, I think you’re talking about my complaint that the school department used its own resources to pay the legal bills of school committee members who put in their own budget, violating the Open Meetings Act along the way, in my view. That’s not the franchise. That’s just corruption.

          • Portia

            Yeah, there you go again playing Facebook lawyer. How many of your complaints were actually successful?

          • Justin Katz

            Well, the courts did keep the school committee members’ petition off the ballot. I didn’t file an OMA on their obvious vote, but I probably should have.

          • Portia

            The petition benefited the schools. It was not corruption to defend it.

            You also didn’t complain about corruption. You complained about the school committee members filing the petition at all. Even though the charter expressly said they could.

            Your problem is the same as Dear Leader’s. You can’t distinguish between “corrupt” and “Justin don’t like.”

            You’ve taken it to a deplorable level this year. You’ve undermined public health. Now you’re even defending insurrection. Where will you stop?

          • Justin Katz

            It was an elector petition that they put in as individuals, and the legal complaint involved them as individuals, so they were giving themselves a significant gift of taxpayer dollars for their personal legal purposes. (A related lawsuit is still pending in the courts, by the way.)

            I’d say that’s corrupt. The problem you describe — oh, courageous anonymous commenter — is not mine, but yours. You’d clearly see the same circumstances as corruption if it were me rather than the school committee members.

          • Portia

            No. The town put up with your bullcrap lawsuits, frivolous Charter complaints, and nonsense Open Meeting complaints for years. No consequences for you whatsoever. You were nothing but an expensive nuisance, but nobody attacked your right to be one.

          • Justin Katz

            That’s simply a delusional comment.

          • Portia

            Like your claims of election fraud?

          • Justin Katz

            No, those aren’t equivalent. Would you like me to list the ways, or did you intend your comment as a mindless attack?

          • Portia

            No, I wouldn’t like you to list the ways. The GOP hasn’t produced evidence of fraud in all of their lawsuits.

            You lost the House, the White House, and now you’ve lost the Senate. Hell, you couldn’t even hang on to the Town Council. Deal with it, without lying about corruption and inciting deadly riots.

          • Justin Katz

            You misunderstand. It isn’t my intention to play the partisan back and forth, which has about as much relevance to each of our individual wisdom and worth than an argument about professional sports. Let’s trace the steps, here:

            1. You proposed that there have been no attacks on my right to be a nuisance.
            2. I suggested that’s a delusional proposition.
            3. You asked whether that delusion is like (you insinuate) delusion about election fraud.

            They are not similar for a variety of reasons.

  • The Misfit

    Stand down

  • Lou

    “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

    ― James Waterman Wise